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Sox Therapy — Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox Monday, January 13, 天津彩票官方开奖Who’s In Charge?I’m putting the cart before the horse a bit here but based on the suspensions and subsequent firings of Jonathan Lunhow and AJ Hinch in Houston it is looking likely that the Boston Red Sox are going to need someone to manage the team for a large chunk of 天津彩票官方开奖 and potentially beyond. I’m just going to throw out a few points and I figure this is as good a place to speculate while we wait for the inevitable hammer to fall on Cora (as it should based on available evidence); - I think firing Lunhow and Hinch, and by extension Cora being fired is a bit unreasonable. This assumes that upper management knew nothing of what was going on and…yeah not buying it. It’s like say if hypothetically the President of the United States had his campaign chairman, lead attorney, National Security Advisor and foreign policy advisor all arrested for breaking the law you’d probably assume the hypothetical President (let’s call him President Naranja) was crooked too. Same thing here. I’m not excusing Lunhow/Hinch but I think to believe Jim Crane is shocked, SHOCKED to find gambling in this establishment is nonsense. With that in mind I don’t think the Sox should fire Cora based on what we know at this point. Serve his suspension and move on. - If the Sox are going to retain Cora I think it is reasonable to assume that Ron Roenicke would take the reins (say that three times fast) for the year-ish that Cora is chilling at 天津彩票官方开奖 with the kids. Roenicke had success in Milwaukee as a manager and seems to be a “good baseball man.” I don’t love the idea of the 63 year old Roenicke being viewed as a long term solution but for a year or two I can see him filling the role the way Mike Port did as GM between Dan Duquette and Theo Epstein. - Unless ownership has gotten a collective case of the stupids (editor: I doubt they have) they won’t make a “hey this would be fun” kind of hire like they did with Youknnowwho prior to 2012. I expect that if they choose to move on from Cora the next step would be someone more in the Alex/Tito/Farrell mode. Maybe not the most exciting guys but stable guys who succeed. I have a theory that Boston sports does not do well with the bombastic coaches. That doesn’t mean these guys aren’t good coaches but the successful ones in my lifetime (incomplete but representative list; KC Jones, Parcells, Belichick, Julien, Stevens, Rivers, Raymond Berry) have for the most part been fairly dour, straight-laced types. By contrast the guys that are a bit more free-wheeling; Voldemort, Mike Keenan, Steve Kasper, Pete Carroll, Rick Pitino…these guys weren’t necessarily bad but they weren’t the right fit. - One name I’ll throw out there as a wild card that I don’t expect is Bruce Bochy. Tom Werner was part of the Padre organization that gave Bochy his first managerial job and if the Sox want a splashy name he’d be a good one. Like I said, I would put the odds of the recently retired Bochy below 1% but hey, it’s fun to speculate. - With all that said I think the Sox are more likely to look internally than externally for a long term hire. If they are going to move on from Cora I suspect someone with a long link to the club might appeal to them. Three names to watch; Billy McMillon - The former outfielder has been a part of the organization for over a decade with managerial stints in Greeenville (Lo A), Salem (Hi A), Portland (AA) and Pawtucket (AAA) which included managing players like Mookie Betts (you thought I wasn’t going to get him in this?). Anyway, like I said my goal here is to just kind of give a place to discuss the future managerial options on the assumption that Alex Cora is not likely to be one of those options. Jose Is Absurdly Chatty
Posted: January 13, 天津彩票官方开奖 at 03:58 PM | 138 comment(s)
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Thing I learned: Jason Varitek is trending
No I will not look to see why but I can pretty strongly guess. The answer to the question is no, no they should not.
I think it's more about how untenable an interim manager and GM would be. Better to make a clean break. With Cora facing a possibly longer suspension, I can't imagine him chilling with the kids while the Red Sox go with some 'good baseball man' type stand in. For all the talk of how important it is for them to COMPETE NOW!, they have to go with the best candidate they can find. Timing will be tough, of course.
It honestly hadn't occurred to me until yesterday that this was even in play! Crazy days.
Manfred's doing what he gets paid for: 1) protecting the owners (no penalties for execs) 2) protecting the box office (no penalties for players) and 3) protecting the game (suspensions & loss of draft picks encourage future compliance). I'm afraid the Sox will lose draft picks, probably more that the Astros, and AC is going to take the biggest fall. Two years?
Will the Yankees have to fire Beltran?
How does Mookie Betts feel about all this, and does it change the Sox' calculus wrt CBT thresholds?
Hey, Chaim, you thought your new job was hard yesterday? How you feeling now?
So far the Mets haven’t said anything one way or the other regarding Beltran.
The Yankees, along with the Dodgers, head the preliminary list of at least 8 other teams besides the Astros and Red Sox accused of doing this.
Dombrowski knew about the Astros sign stealing scheme in 2017 so he hired Cora knowing Cora had a reputation in his playing days as a great sign stealer and was probably the mastermind. He made sure Cora had the resources to get the job done.
LaRussa obviously is bad news. He was in at ground level with the PED scandals and knows how to cover things up. Dombrowski brought him on board to help cover Cora’s tracks. Watch to see the Angels have big success this year.
Yeah, if I were a fan of another team I’d be wary of throwing stones here. I suspect this is like the PED stuff where everyone is doing something one way or another.
Also you forgot some cardinal rules about weird Red Sox theories: If the guy is no longer with the organization he is good, and losing him was a mistake made with nefarious motives. And if the guy is still with the organization, he is either bad or soon to be shipped out.
Ha! You might want to .
If you can't connect any of this to the original sinner, Young Theo, what are we even doing here?
You're right. I think I have the framework:
Theo wanted revenge for the firing of his protege Cherington. So he used his minions still in the building to sour ownership on Dombrowski and get him fired. Did I say minions? I actually meant .... ALEX CORA, whom the Red Sox acquired by trade in 2005. That trade of course was made by Theo. So Dombrowski is stewing, and has roped in LaRussa who holds a grudge after being ousted from the Diamondbacks where he was replaced by Mike Hazen, yet another Theo protege. Dave Stewart was also pushed out of the Diamondbacks at the same time. So after Dombrowski was fired, he and LaRussa cook up a plan to get revenge on Cora. Larussa talks to his buddy Dave Stewart, who came up as a player in the minor leagues and with the Dodgers alongside .... Red Sox bench coach Ron Roenicke. So Stewart and LaRussa lean on him, and point out that he would be in line for the manager position if Cora were somehow taken out of the picture. Roenicke was formerly the manager of the Brewers from 2011-2015, a span that exactly overlaps with the Brewers career of a pitcher named .... wait for it .... MIKE FIERS. fin
Of course now Nate willl have go into hiding. That's bad.
Oh, might want to reread , too, Clapper.
Who died and made you Donald Trump?
Anyway, definitely maintain that confidence, Clapper, it's certainly not going to backfire in the least.
Hold on hold on....damn.
Based on the sheer awfulness of their offense the past couple of years, I think I can say with assurance that my beloved Detroit Tigers are not cheating...
Or, if they are, then either A) they're not very good at it, or B) their hitters suck even worse than they appear to, as impossible as that may seem.
Would you say it's more or less likely than Jeter trading Stanton?
No, what you actually said was "an 'accusation' requires an accuser" and then I linked you to one!
Ha! Logan Morrison, famously a Red Sox fanboy.
No? I don't think? It might be but I would hope Kennedy wouldn't make that statement if he knew the hammer was coming down on the Sox also. One thing I saw mentioned by one of the beat guys is that the Sox FO during the press conference was giving a vibe that whatever was going on was not as bad as the Astros. Henry et al are not exactly the best actors in the world so that might just be inadvertent but it's possible that they weren't doing anything and the investigation is a function of them hiring a guy who just got outed as being the ringleader elsewhere. Kinda like if you signed Gaylord Perry people were going to assume you had someone on your staff throwing the spitball. I dunno, for now I'm waiting.
Yankee Clapper - I seriously don't know what you are arguing here. I know your M.O. is to show up in Sox Therapy threads when things aren't going great for the Sox and hey fair enough, that's a fan thing to do. But I'm genuinely not sure what you are arguing. If you are looking for people here to say "poor victimized Yankees who are pure and innocent" I mean, you probably are in the wrong place. Maybe you are right and the Sox and Astros just happened to be the only two teams in baseball doing anything wrong. This seems like a good place to note the Sox are just being investigated but have not been found guilty of anything. Or put another way the Sox have been found guilty of the same amount of things as the Yankees who hired the other Astro ringleader last year and had guys like Gio Urshela and Mike Tauchman turn into superstars. But keep doing whatever it is you are doing because I really don't know what your complaint is.
I mean hey, if the Sox were involved they deserve to get punished. No argument here. If your complaint is just that it is ridiculous to even consider the idea that this is more widespread than just two teams well I'll just say I find that naive and I think just about every team in baseball is doing something much like what we saw with PEDs.
I mean to be clear, the public accusations pretty obviously don't rise to the level of the Astros thing, so I don't mean that. I just really don't think they'd be firing him if they weren't also under investigation for something? It's easy to let Beltran, for example, go, he hasn't even really started the job yet. But firing a guy two years after he's been with your team, exclusively for something he did with a previous team, is a little odd.
EDIT: It would be very easy to make noise about how he turned the page, has been nothing but an exemplary employee with our team, etc., we'll welcome him back after his suspension.
I have greater confidence than most that distractions like that can be managed. But I don't run the Red Sox, nor am I the manager. If they feel "mutually" that that's asking too much, then it's better to cut ties now.
EDIT: Maybe not that hard a decision, since it’s now being reported that Beltrán is out. Will still be curious how the money issue are addressed for the various wrongdoers.
It's a different but similar version to the way MLB makes sure that whatever happens the league and individual clubs' accounting records are never made public. Is it worth the $1.2 million to the Astros not to have to go through that? I suspect it is.
I wonder if we are underestimating how loved Alex Cora was in the clubhouse, and if there will be lingering effects like the post-Pete Rose Reds Jose mentioned.
I don’t think we are underestimating it so much as we are just not discussing it yet. I think it’s fair to say he was incredibly well liked. This is why I think the more continuity they can maintain the better. McMillon, Febles, Roenicke, one from that group. Gerdman has also gotten a lot of good press for his work with the kids coming through the system. I really believe Febles would be the best option but the investigation has to be complete before he gets elevated given his presence on the MLB staff for the last two seasons.
My mother’s favorite player when I was a kid was Carlton Fisk (for reasons I prefer not to think about re: my mother). Anyway, she always blamed Gedman and insisted that Fisk would have been able to keep things calm and the Sox would have won.
Anyhoot, before retiring she worked for 12 years as a social worker at the local senior citizen center. One thing they would do is work with the Sox to bring in a former player to talk to the men’s group they had (women were allowed don’t yell at me). Gedman was one of the speakers they had and she called me afterward and said “this sucks, now I can’t hate him anymore because he was such a nice guy.”
My guess is that they are approaching spring with Roenicke as the boss and want to promote him but they don’t want to make that move until the investigation is complete in case Roenicke was involved in something.
Good guess on the internal candidates.
But the great/weird thing about Cubbage is I don’t know what happened to him after he left. He just seemed to vanish.
That 2003 team also entered the season without a pitching coach, thanks to Tony Cloninger's cancer diagnosis towards the end of Spring Training. that year. BBRef lists the team as having four different pitching coaches, and no one in the position for the first week or so of the season.
via The Athletic paywall
I keep reading about Arenado trade talk, which seems a bit similar. Supposedly the Rockies are still planning on it even if they've cooled off on doing something before sprint training. I don't get that either. His contract kills his trade value. He might be unhappy but he's going to play hard.
Dock in 88 says it well (though I disagree with the tainted championship comment). It’s pretty frustrating to have it be so obvious that our opinions as fans is so meaningless.
MLB is still dicking around with their investigation into the Sox, I really don't think they are going to hire/promote someone until MLB comes out with the results.
And yeah, trading Betts is a joke. Trading Betts so they can save some money on Price's contract is a straight up insult to the fans. Price may be overpaid, but he is at least a decent pitcher.
Here’s what I don’t get. Why is Price in or not in these deals? If the Sox are trying to maximize return trade Mookie only and get Verdugo and some other stuff. If the Sox are trying to cut salary then just ####### trade Price for a bag of baseballs.
But this...this just makes no sense whatsoever. If he walks in free agency, that’s fine. Go for it this year. This team can win the World Series this year and even if they don’t, so be it. Just giving up a year is nonsense.
It's a stupid plan for all the reasons we've been talking about in these threads for months, so I don't feel the need to re-hash them. But that's what I think they are going for.
Sure, that's right, it's just total bullshit. This team is loaded with in their prime talent. They won 108 games two seasons ago. And, obviously, a past his prime, fairly paid Adrian Gonzalez is not quite comparable to Mookie Betts.
(Obviously I know you know these things, I'm just ranting.)
--They can't find a deal with Price alone that gets them below the threshold. So they have to trade Mookie to accomplish that goal. So they look at what they can get for just Mookie vs. what they can get for Mookie + Price + cash and like it better.
--They think that once they're trading Mookie, they're basically punting 天津彩票官方开奖 anyway. They don't like the Price contract beyond this year, so they want to get out from under as much of it as they can.
People are talking about 天津彩票官方开奖 as if the Red Sox are big-time contenders as is, and I agree based on what we know. But there is so much we don't know that the Red Sox front office does, mainly the health of their starters. Just based on what we know, I'm not confident that all of Price, Sale, and Eovaldi will contribute in 天津彩票官方开奖. If they lose significant time from that trio, we're in big trouble.
But even putting that aside and assuming we're going to compete, why is it impossible to believe that a Mookie trade absolutely ruins this team's chances. If they get Verdugo and say Gonsolin, that's maybe 4 WAR in place of Mookie's 6. Is it worth losing 2 wins in 天津彩票官方开奖 to secure those 2 young players, plus a prospect, for 2021 and beyond?
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